Sep 22, 2020
On this episode of the Quiet Light podcast, we speak with Dillon
Carter about his path to launching a wholesale CRM, why he pivoted
to a slighted different business model, and how his company helps
their clients succeed. Dillon Carter is one of the founders of
Aura, a wholesale CRM that helps you with repricing, managing
wholesale suppliers, and growing your Amazon business. Tune in to
hear our interesting discussion!
Topics:
- How he floundered before finding his true passion.
- Launching a wholesale-based CRM software, before pivoting into
repricing software.
- Explaining wholesale.
- Working with an antiquated business model.
- What happens when everyone is using Aura at the same time.
- How Aura works.
Resources: Aura Dillon Carter’s
Website Quiet Light
Transcription: Joe: Hey folks,
Joe Valley here from Quiet Light Brokerage and the Quiet Light
Podcast sponsored by Quiet Light Brokerage, oddly enough. Everybody
here is an entrepreneur. We've all built, bought, and sold our own
online businesses. I sold my last e-commerce business in 2010.
Things have changed a little bit since then. We've got to Dillon
Carter on the podcast today. Dillon is one of those changes. He
was; well, let's see, 2010, you were still in high school back
then, weren't you?
Dillon: I graduated in 2010,
yeah.
Joe: That makes me an old guy or you very
good at what you do at such a young age. Probably just that, I'm
going to call at Syed Balkhi right now. Syed I think might have
just turned 30 years old and referred a client over to me so I was
just chatting with him earlier today. Incredibly impressive at a
young age and I'm looking at your LinkedIn profile, I'm looking at
Vendrive, I'm looking at Aura Repricing and, man, you've got a lot
going on in your life. Can you help people that are listening, who
you are and what you do and summarize or give more detail to that
summary that I just gave?
Dillon: Sure. So I
started out graduating high school not knowing what in the world I
wanted to do, like most entrepreneurs. So, I kind of floundered for
about four to five years, just testing a bunch of different things.
I found myself being a personal trainer, working ridiculous hours
and realizing I did not like a service based business because
that's kind of difficult to scale. I realized okay, physical
products is something that could theoretically scale in my mind at
that time so I started playing around with the Amazon FBA model.
Like most people, you get started with retail or online arbitrage,
right? Low capital requirement, you could kind of test the waters.
I did that and eventually me and the GM of the gym I was training
at did not see eye to eye so I decided, you know what, let's go
ahead and put myself in a corner and make it work. And so,
eventually I decided retail arbitrage, although was better than
being able to scale my time so I could not scale in the way that I
wanted the business to. So like most FBA sellers, I decided to
either go the wholesale or the private label route. I chose
wholesale. It made a little bit more sense to me; low capital
requirement, I could start paying the bills immediately because it
was certainly an issue that I was faced with. I went that route and
really spent a handful of years just crafting what wholesale meant
to me, how I approached it. At the same time, I decided to go back
to school full time for college. So it was one of those lingering
aspects of my life where I was like do I really want to be that
statistic where you took a few semesters, you kind of dropped out,
and never went back. I'm like, no, I'm tripling down on my life at
this point, no holds barred, and so that's what I did. And then
eventually I met my co-founder, James. We eventually launched
www.Vendrive.com, which is
wholesale-based CRM software and then pivoted actually funny enough
into repricing software. And that's our primary focus at the
moment. So I've kind of traversed this world in a few different
ways. I launched a podcast or two here and there. I shared all the
knowledge that I've gained along the way and the podcast and blog
posts and our Facebook group I mean, really just somewhat built an
audience just teaching everything for free and I learned a lot from
that. It's been a long journey, so to speak, but I feel like I'm
just getting started.
Joe: That's the way to do
it. You help, help, and help some more. Give it all for free and
make some friends along the way. It's amazing what you do when you
help others, how it comes back to help your own business. In fact,
we had Steven Pope on our podcast. I think he's
www.MyAmazonGuy.com and so did you
and he connected the two of us together. Strangely enough, I told
you at the beginning of this call or before we hit record, that I
sent a message out to the team that we just don't have enough
wholesale guys; men, women, people, individuals, entrepreneurs on
the podcast, because we have not historically sold a ton of
wholesale businesses. But it's a funny thing, I come from the
private label world. I didn't sell on Amazon. When I sold my
e-commerce business it really wasn't much focused on Amazon. I did
after that, but it was always my own products, always private label
and some people look down on wholesale. At this point in my career;
not that I'm going to change what I do, but if I were, I might look
at wholesale before I look at private label. I might look at an
agency before I make a private label. I might do a lot of different
things. I might even look at content. But why don't you, for the
sake of those that are listening, that are not as versed in it as
you are define what wholesale is versus private label and how it
works?
Dillon: Sure. Wholesale is a very
antiquated business model and I don't say that in a negative tone.
What I mean by that is you are buying low and you are selling
higher. You're literally finding listings on Amazon that are
already doing well and you are doing what we call reverse sourcing.
So you're finding listings already doing well, finding those
brands, those products, and then you are going to the brand to open
a wholesale account to purchase in bulk like pallets and stuff like
that. It's actually very straightforward. There's nothing crazy to
it. The difference here because you made a good point that a lot of
people don't view the wholesale business model as a sexy business
model. That's not your quote but that's kind of what I hear and you
hear it a lot. And I think the reason why you have not sold a whole
lot of wholesale Amazon business models is because the multiples
are not that great. So, when I went back to school, I actually went
to be finance major and so my focus was actually M&A. So doing
a lot of valuations, some discounted cash flows, kind of nerdy
stuff. But when you look at it, those businesses are easy to
replicate. There's not a lot that you're really protecting, right?
There's not a lot that I can really build up and get a decent
multiple on. And so, I think they're very great in the sense of I
can get cash flow positive within 30 days if you kind of know what
you're doing and you're being serious about it. Right. Whereas
private label is going to take a little bit more time. That's an
investment for the future. I view a wholesale business model as a
cash flow business where private label is more something you're
looking to expand the value of your equity over a long period of
time and potentially exit and so, it depends on what you're
optimizing for.
Joe: There's definitely a
difference between the two, because the private label businesses
that are growing like crazy, those folks are not taking a whole lot
of money out of the business. They’re constantly putting it back
into inventory to try to keep up. But you said you said sourcing by
looking out in the marketplace; Amazon, if that's what we're
talking about, to see what other people are selling and then
sourcing the product from the brand owner. So, we're talking about
brands that have multiple sellers on Amazon in this particular case
and you are then going to compete against the other sellers on
Amazon as well, correct?
Dillon: That's correct.
Absolutely.
Joe: All right, that doesn't sound
very attractive. How do you compete against the others? How do you
do a better job on your listings and your ratings and reviews and
your pricing and things of this nature?
Dillon:
This is where it becomes an antiquated business model, in my
opinion. And again, not in a negative tone where it comes down to
relationships. So, a lot of people are jumping into the Amazon
space want that lifestyle business, right. What a lot of people
kind of project as this is what it's like to sell on Amazon. The
reality of it is it's a lot of phone calls. It's a lot of old
school relationship building. It's understanding that…
Joe: We all have to do that.
Dillon: I know right.
Joe: It’s
now like rocket science. Yeah, it sounds much simpler than trying
to figure out the thickness of a corrugated box that you're going
to import from China.
Dillon: 100%. I've said for
the past three or four years that wholesale is simple, not easy.
It's simple enough. I mean, we can sketch the entire business model
on a napkin, and I've done that. It's not easy because it's a lot
more work. Now, that's not a bad thing, right? This is not sending
a bunch of emails to manufacturers in China and playing that kind
of game. This is actually jumping on the phone and having a real
conversation with somebody. What's different about wholesale and
why it's uncomfortable for a lot of people is that you are
essentially doing a sales job; you are calling a brand to sell them
on allowing you to give them your money. It's a bit backwards,
right? But that's kind of what it is. And so a lot of people get
stuck where they jump into these relationships and they’re trying
to get these accounts and they're like I keep getting denied. Why
won't they take my money? I'm trying to give them money. And what a
lot of people have to learn, first and foremost, is the value add
that you are bringing to the table is not your money, it's the
relationship. What else can you do for that brand? Because what
you're not doing is necessarily just jumping on the listing and
taking another slice of the pie. You're strategically looking to
increase the sales volume here, right? You're looking at running
PPC campaigns, you're looking at listing optimization, and you’re
looking at how can I help my supplier negate other sellers. I keep
going below minimum advertised price so, mat price. You're looking
at this as a very strategic business model if you're doing it
correctly and I think a lot of people view it too simplistically.
And again, it is simple, but when you approach it from an operation
standpoint as too simple, I think you negate the requirements that
enable you to be successful. Does that make sense?
Joe: Yeah, they're looking at the wrong things.
Dillon: 100%.
Joe: They're not
looking at the most important thing, which is the relationship.
With wholesale accounts, with wholesale clients, you've had
friends; I mean, you're in the circles, people that you work with.
How many wholesale brand relationships do they have or have to
have; sorry, I know this is an unanswerable question with accuracy,
in order to really make a good living out of it?
Dillon: Sure. If you want to replace a job, the
way I source, and the criteria I look for purchasing inventory,
which is not super complex by any stretch of the imagination, 10 to
12 SKUs is pretty solid. I think you can get to a point where
you're actually replacing job income and at least paying the bills.
The cool thing about; so you have the spectrum, right, where
private label is going to have like a handful; like a small amount
of SKUs, in my opinion. One to two, obviously, you're trying to
grow that over time, but if you look at the average it’s probably a
little bit less. Then on the other end of that spectrum, you have
like retail and online arbitrage where it's like thousands upon
thousands of SKUs. Wholesale is kind of somewhere in the middle,
but leaning more towards the private label route. So a handful of
great relationships is enough. You don't need to have 30 plus
relationships. I think that's where you get really, really big but
you don't really need that. You could do a quarter million in
revenue with six to seven SKUs if they're the right kind of SKUs
because it is repeatable and scalable.
Joe: And
what are your margins on that? What's left over for you at the end
of the day, if you're doing a quarter million in revenue? Because
if it's a private label, that’s kind of doing a quarter million in
revenue, there's not a lot left over. I guess maybe upwards of
50,000 maybe. But they're taking that money and they're putting it
right back in inventory so there's not a lot of cash flow in that
situation.
Dillon: Yeah, it can vary. I've seen
people have some pretty high margins. I've seen people take really,
really slim margins. I look for at least 30% in gross margin.
Obviously, the business expenses that's kind of going to be
situational. But if I could do 30% outside of the business
expenses, that's pretty good in my opinion. I think it's scalable.
Joe: This is after Amazon fees.
Dillon: That's correct.
Joe:
Okay, that's pretty good. That's pretty solid, actually. What about
exclusivity? At what point do you get to be exclusive? Because in
my view, that's going to make the business more sellable and have
value. So, you're not only building cash flow but you're also
building equity. Obviously you got to do better than everybody else
and be really important to that relationship. Is that it?
Dillon: For the most part, yeah. What's funny is
it is that relationship and it's understanding that it just takes
time; like any great relationship, it just takes time. So a lot of
sellers jump in and say, hey, I just got this account, how do I get
exclusive? You wait. You do a great job, you become their biggest
buyer, you work with them, you add more value than just your money,
and then you start to have that conversation over time. I had a
friend, she started her Amazon business, it was doing well, and she
followed up every two weeks for a year just to get an account. And
not just like, hey, how's everything going? These are in-depth
emails of, hey, I noticed this on your listing here's what I would
recommend you do and gave them all of that knowledge. And
eventually they let you know that that's a lot of work, what would
it take for you to do that for us? Give me the account and I want
exclusive rights. They go, you know what, let's test it for two
weeks and if it if it pans out, we’ll absolutely give you the
exclusive rights. And she's got it now.
Joe:
Excellent. Yeah, I know that's the trick. Just again, help them. It
is a ton of work so give it all the way and then they realize I
really do understand the value of having you do it for me. Let's
talk about competing on Amazon for the buy box and what Aura
Repricing does because it's so very different than what most people
have heard on this podcast because most people are content owners,
SaaS owners, private label brand owners. They're not wholesale.
Dillon: Yeah, so roughly 82% of organic sales come
via the buy box. So that buy box is just that where you go as a
consumer and hit one click purchase. That's what we call the buy
box. When you're competing with other sellers on the same listing,
you're not trying to optimize your listing to beat the other
listings. That goes out the door. Now, it's about value. In terms
of your price it obviously comes down to your competitive advantage
in terms of getting cost lower from your supplier hence
relationships matter. It comes down to seller feedback a lot of the
times. So what we're having to do is stay competitively priced
24/7. And by the way, these things are changing every few seconds.
Private label, you're used to set the price and maybe every now and
then we'll change it.
Joe: Yeah.
Dillon: No, 24/7 here and so some of our larger
users that have a few hundred thousand SKUs that are actively
repricing, we're doing tens of thousands of price changes per
second just for them. So, what we're having to do is say you can't
do it yourself, it doesn't scale so let's hand that over to a
computer with an algorithm with a set of rules that can say, you
know what, the price just changed let's react to that as quickly as
possible. And if doing so, we increased the amount of time you're
in the buy box, which increases the amount of sales you get.
Joe: What happens if you've got three products in
the buy box, they're all the same brand, and two out of the three
are using Aura Repricing?
Dillon: Yes, we get this
question a lot; what if everybody's using Aura at the same time? At
that point, it comes down to two major things. One, your strategy
because you have some control over that. Some people are willing to
be more aggressive than others. And then number two, what's really
more important, in my opinion, is your cost. A lot of sellers make
the assumption that we got the same costs. I know what I paid for
so therefore, I theoretically know what you paid for it. That's not
true. I could have lower cost because I have a better relationship
or I have more capital to play with. So, I'm purchasing in larger
quantities, in which case I'm getting quantity breaks on my cost,
in which case I can be more aggressive in my price. So, it comes
down to those major two things.
Joe: Okay, what
else can people that are a wholesaler do to improve their rankings,
listings, and so on and so forth on Amazon?
Dillon: Yeah, one of the things we've seen;
forecasting with wholesale is very important, just like it is with
private label. However, it's a little bit different. So, if I'm not
mistaken, a lot of private label people are purchasing like three
months’ worth of inventory because you have a lead-time for
manufacturing. For us, it's like every two to four weeks we’re
placing restock orders. So, we're trying to get dense from when the
capital goes out of the business to when it comes back with profits
as small as possible.
Joe: So, it’s two to four
weeks if you just average to three I mean that’s a quarter of the
working capital that you need for a private label business.
Dillon: 100%. So, we're looking at stuff like
that. What's important there was a lot of forecasting won't factor
in regional distribution. And what I mean by that is a lot of times
you can take a SKU that you're selling on and you have repeat sales
and let's say you're moving a hundred units per month like
clockwork. You testing increasing that to 200 can actually have a
larger distribution in terms of where your SKUs are in the country
and now you're starting to get access to what's called a regional
buy box and you actually start to see a little bit more sales from
that. I didn't believe it at first and then I tested it with a few
selling friends, and sure enough, they increased sales by just
doing that. So you don't have just the one global buy box, although
that's what we're able to focus on as developers. You also have a
regional buy box.
Joe: And Aura Repricing can have
an impact on that?
Dillon: That's correct. That
comes basically down to where is your inventory today, like right
now.
Joe: And how do you control that again with
Amazon?
Dillon: Increased inventory.
Joe: Just spend more money and have more inventory
and then you're going to…
Dillon: Yeah, it's a
test for sure.
Joe: And you can do that over time,
obviously, if you have personal overhead.
Dillon:
Absolutely.
Joe: Okay, tell me about Aura
Repricing and when did you launch it? To me, honestly, the
development of this must have been crazy. I mean, you did finance
and M&A; is your business partner a coder or a developer?
Dillon: Yeah, so me and my co-founder, James, met
actually via Instagram. So, we were both wholesale sellers,
separate of each other and we just started to meet up once a week
via Skype back in the day and just, hey, what's going on? What's
new? He was kind of helping me scale my business because his was
already at seven. Mine was at six figures so he was helping me
understand some cash flow stuff that I needed to learn. And
eventually he was like, hey, by the way, I'm at UMass and I am an
engineering student. I'm already starting to work on some side
projects. Do you want to partner up? And that's when we started to
launch Vendrive. So, Aura, the beta took roughly eight to nine
months of him by himself, because I'm not an engineer. I'm not a
coder. I can script some stuff and that's about it.
Joe: Yeah.
Dillon: So that was
him pretty much working 80, 90 hour weeks for eight to nine months,
just grinding it out and we got the beta up. We tested with 20 to
30 users just from day one just to get that feedback loop going.
Launched my winter break between semesters in December of 2018 and
then we launched that and I had 50 users paying and we just started
a feedback loop and scaling from there.
Joe: And
you both finished college?
Dillon: We did. Yeah,
we both finished college at the same time and now we're actually;
we were fully remote. I was in Florida, now we're in Boston and we
have our first like large office which you can see back here. We
have the walls painted and the whiteboard is up, and we're actually
hiring three engineers in the next month or two.
Joe: Very cool. That's a great success story, man.
Dillon: Yeah, thanks.
Joe: I know
that you said he was in college and you were in college at same
time but developing it in college; doing seven figures in revenue
while in college is pretty impressive. So let's say he's doing a
million, he’s doing maybe 300,000 in cash flow, in profit, even if
you divide by two while a student in college, that's pretty damn
impressive.
Dillon: It's not bad. Yeah, it's
definitely not bad. That's the thing about wholesale is I tell
people, it can be at whatever scale you want. I think it's
difficult to really take a private label brand and just be like,
oh, I just kind of want to make a little extra cash. When I started
mine again, I went back to school, and I was like if this thing
just pay my bills and allows me to focus on school full time and
get through that and not take six years to get through, it’s kind
of a solid win. And to be honest, that's kind of where I got it and
I was happy with that. And then once I graduated, it's like cool
now, we can go full force. And really I did like two semesters
before because Aura started to really scale and outpace itself,
which was awesome. But yeah, I think it's cool thing.
Joe: Let's get back to the repricing part, because
if I'm the wholesale owner, how am I going to work with Aura and
Aura Repricing to determine how low it goes? Is this simply a
matter of math and numbers and what my relationship is; how does it
work?
Dillon: So you have two major ways of
setting a min max. We always require a minimum and a maximum price.
This is the range of which Aura is allowed to play within because
we don't want to go too low and not too high and all that good
stuff. You can manually set that. Some people have their own
formulas, some people just take current buy box price and reduce
that by 30%. What I typically recommend is the second option, which
is an automated option. So, you can set that based on an ROI. We'll
actually import your cost that you give us or you're using a tool
like Inventory Lab to store that. So, we'll import those and you'll
say a minimum I want 20% ROI. What we'll do is we'll factor in your
cost and then the Amazon fees, obviously factoring in that 20% ROI
and say, okay, here's your calculated min price. We’ll
automatically set that for all your SKUs. So we create different
strategies and those strategies can be assigned to a group of SKUs,
one SKU, your entire account; it's really up to you. And then
however you want to set those min max prices, you can definitely do
that.
Joe: That's pretty impressive.
Dillon: Yeah.
Joe: When it comes
to wholesale, again, I'm a little ignorant on it, because it's
probably a well-known brand; I would assume or a well enough known
brand are people searching for the brand name and therefore there's
not as much sponsored ads or are people doing sponsored advertising
as well?
Dillon: This is what's interesting, I
know ads are very prominent and expensive for private label. What's
interesting is when I started testing paid ads on wholesale, they
were actually very cheap. And for whatever reason, the brands
themselves do not seem to be doing that on Amazon. They don't. They
just let the sales happen and they don't progress with it, period.
The opportunity is that it's less competitive because from my
personal experience, what I've done is I've created ads targeting
the brand name and the product name and not the type of product. So
the proverbial garlic fresh, right.
Joe:
[Inaudible 00:22:36.5].
Dillon: Yeah, but
we're going to do as an example, Nike, blah, blah, blah. When
you're doing that they're super cheap and very scalable. I had a
product that retailed for $329.95, it was costing me an additional
$5 per sale via paid ads, and they're already doing 30 to 40 units
per month organically. But that netted me $55 net profit so minus
the $5 we’re still doing 50 bucks. So I'm able to increase my
volume. I'm trading five bucks for 50 bucks at this point.
Joe: Sure.
Dillon:
[inaudible 00:23:11.3] oh, that's expensive, five bucks. I'm
like, not really when you do the math on it.
Joe:
Absolutely, you're paying five bucks and you're getting 50 bucks
back. That's a good return.
Dillon: Yeah, I'm not
even very good at it. That's the important part.
Joe: Are you doing any video ads; do you have the
options to do whatever you want or can you not do video ads for
wholesale?
Dillon: I've yet to see any
restrictions on that. I haven't done the video ads. There's this
weird dichotomy where there's some things you should be willing to
do for your brands and then there are some things that are just
going to cost too much. It's very ROI driven. So, some brands are
going to do that themselves and that's going to help you
organically. Some sellers, if you have the right exclusive
agreement, it can make sense. It just comes down to the math where
it really will...
Joe: We just had Judson Morgan
on from
www.Butter.la and he
talked everybody through how to do videos from your iPhone or a
Pixel, and it's not a lot of dough. An unboxing, if you will.
You’re making it natural and normal and he talked about the
lighting and all that stuff. That's what I'm talking about. He
talked about the bump in conversion rate with videos, either video
ads or videos in your listings. I know that with private label,
they get six or seven; maybe six to eight images that they're
allowed to have and one of them can be video. Normally it's pushed
to the very end. Do you do that with wholesale as well, the video,
the unboxing, and things of that nature?
Dillon:
You do to a certain degree. So, part of the value add to the brand,
again, is not just your capital. It's looking at where the listing
itself can be optimized. A lot of sellers are hesitant to do that
stuff because all that work is not just coming back to you. It's
coming back to all the other sellers. And so that's where it gets
kind of interesting, where there's some growth hacks, so to speak,
that are only going to come back to you as the seller. So you're
not really increasing competition's volume as well. I'm of the
opinion if it raises all boats, I'm still probably willing to do it
because I'm still getting a positive ROI on that it just depends on
the person. So, I'm a huge fan of a growth strategy that I kind of
created actually from Amazon affiliate sites. So, I was looking at
different brokers. I’m just looking at what's for sale in the
Amazon space. I'd like to keep a look at multiples and what's being
sold. I was like, you know what, these Amazon affiliate sites are
genius. They’re there to make money and move inventory because
that's when they get paid. So then I said, well, what happens when
I start to reach out to these site owners and say, you know what, I
sell a grill thermometer, you have a bestbarbecue.com Amazon
affiliate site, what happens when I get you to replace your $200
grill thermometer with my $329 one, does that actually increase
sales? And if we can structure the URL correctly, all of the sales
are coming straight to me, not just anybody who happens to be in
the buy box at the moment. It turns out you can. So, there's some
more strategy there in terms of growth but that's where you have to
really think through the relationship you have. If it's a very
short term seasonal relationship, I may not be willing to go to
that extent because it is a lot of work. However, if it's a brand
that I want to work with for a long period of time, that's
different. And I've always told people to approach it that way. If
I don't in my mind think that I can work with a brand for the next
12 plus months, I really don't see the point in it. I'm not
opportunistic in the way I approach wholesale.
Joe: You're blowing my mind that you're 28 years
old, I got to tell you that.
Dillon: I appreciate
it. Thank you.
Joe: All right. So, Aura Repricing,
anybody that does any wholesale got to go to Aura Repricing. Check
it out and see what Aura repricing could do for them. Let's talk
also about the two podcasts; I think you've got two podcasts or is
it one? Anything else you want people to know about you and things
of that nature before we wrap it up here?
Dillon:
Sure. So, I kind of got sick of the $3,000 courses. I'm not
anti-course by any stretch of the imagination.
Joe: We just launched one for $3,000.
Dillon: So, I decided I was going to share
everything that I knew, which is I'm not an expert in my opinion,
but I know some stuff and so I'm willing to share everything that I
do know. So if you go to
www.Vendrive.com/blog, I've
pretty much written some crazy in-depth articles on wholesale in
terms of overcoming objections with suppliers, the cash flow
management of it; all the fun nitty-gritty stuff. And of course,
Wholesale Made Easy, which is the podcast. I'm not running that
active anymore. That was structured to be like an evergreen podcast
where it's not short-term tactics. It's foundational stuff like
we're talking about here that if you listen to it a year from now,
it's still going to apply. We do have the new podcast called
Welcome to Growth, which is me and my co-host, Jonathan. It's way
more casual and it's more just me and him going back and forth
every Thursday on different topics.
Joe: That's
where I heard your first. I’m like I like these guys, they don't
have any scripts at all. It's perfect for me.
Dillon: We literally show up that morning. We
might text the night before and say, hey, here's three topics that
I would like to talk about. We'll pick one and just riff on it for
about an hour.
Joe: Yeah, it's awesome and you're
a wealth of knowledge. We need to talk more about wholesale again
someday. Thanks for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it.
Dillon: Yeah, thanks for having me.
